Stories from the Front:
The Oil and Gas Industry

Craig Jeffery: 

Welcome to the Treasury Update Podcast. This is Craig Jeffery. Today’s episode is part of our series Stories from the Front. Today we’re looking at the oil and gas industry. 

Craig Jeffery: 

I’m joined by Lee-Ann Perkins, who’s Assistant Treasurer at ION Geophysical. Lee-Ann, thank you so much for joining me on today’s podcast. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Thank you, Craig. It’s always great to talk to you and to talk treasury, especially in these turbulent times. 

Craig Jeffery: 

It sure is. As you know from the Stories from the Front series, we look at the impacts on different industries. The most recent disruption is this COVID, COVID’s impact on the oil and gas industry. Those who are in it, obviously know about it deeply. Those that aren’t, maybe it’s like, “Wow, it’s a lot cheaper to buy gas now.” 

Craig Jeffery: 

Maybe we could just talk about what happened and how severe is this impact on the industry, the COVID impact and its ripple effect through the economy in this industry vertical. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Sure. it has been quite difficult this year. Oil and gas has gone through many years of turbulence that, when times are good, they’re really good, but when they’re bad, they’re extremely bad. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

This year, as everybody knows, has been quite difficult. On March 9th, we experienced the intersection of where COVID hit the oil price crisis. Oil prices fell, at one point, by 30%, to the lowest it had been in 18 years. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Of course this was very dramatic for a company like mine, in the oil and gas sector. We’re upstream. So, we get hit the hardest, we get hit first and we take the longest to recover. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

So as a company, ION had very strong Q1 numbers, but the impact was definitely felt in Q2. We had about a 46% decrease in revenues compared to the same time previous year. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

At the same time, our customers were impacted by commodity prices and the macroeconomic events of COVID. So this obviously impacted our revenue as well. And like many of our customers and competitors, we experienced significant layoffs, some furloughs and a quite dramatic 20% salary cut. So, it’s been pretty difficult times. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Our immediate need was cash preservation. This included a lot of cost cutting measures, such as the salaries and also cost control with the vendors. There was a lot of negotiations having to go on at that time, too. And then at the same time, our customers significantly reduced their cap expend. So, it’s been a difficult time all around and we hope it gets better pretty soon. 

Craig Jeffery: 

Yeah, certainly. Those are some dramatic numbers. It’s pretty easy to adapt to a 5% change, but 20%, 30, 40, 50% is- 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Impressive numbers. 

Craig Jeffery: 

Yeah. You can’t just say we’re going to stop traveling or whatever. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Right. 

Craig Jeffery: 

Lee-Ann, one of the things I was hoping you’d do for the broader listening community … Not everybody’s an expert on the different elements of upstream and downstream in oil and gas and where ION Geophysical sits. Maybe you could give us a little bit of an explanation of the sector, and then maybe we can talk a little bit more about how your part of the sector may have differed from others, that other people who are listening may be expecting or have experienced. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Sure. ION is a technology-focused company. We concentrate on select growing segments within the $400 billion exploration and production markets. Therefore, that means that any oil price volatility affects our revenue directly in the exploration sector. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Our customers are predominantly the large exploration and production companies, the Exxons, the Chevrons, the Shells. As ION, we’re in the complete upstream process. So, we start right at the beginning, where oil is searched for in the depths of the oceans. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

For us, we have to rely on the capital budget spend of the E&P companies. Of course, this means we get impacted by commodity prices along the way. The customers, they have a lot deeper pockets than us. They’re much bigger companies and they have a lot more diversification than we do. So, they have a bit more time to adjust to the commodity prices and the macroeconomic events. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

A lot of the time, when the oil and gas sector is hit, companies in the ions, geology and software sector get hit first and we’re waiting on our customers to recover before our projects come back online. So, we’re more of what we call a luxury business. 

Craig Jeffery: 

If the pricing drops or the demand drops significantly, it cascades upstream at a faster rate, three times, whatever, two, three times faster shutting it down. And then it has to open up or thaw before the capital goes there. So, if they can pause projects immediately or stop activity … 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Yeah. Correct. Our projects are quite long term as well, as you would imagine. With doing the seismic work and finding the pockets, it takes a couple of years. It’s not just a quick project, in and out. 

Craig Jeffery: 

For ION Geophysical then, obviously you experienced that being in the position upstream in the market, with the tightening. What have you done, maybe from a strategic perspective, to diversify or reduce the impact of first a downturn and last to come up model of where you are in the economy, in this industry sector? 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Yeah. Fortunately, our C-suite have been looking at diversifying the strategy for quite some time now. So because we tend to be disproportionately impacted by these events, we’ve had to out of necessity, become an asset light company. The strategy change over the years has enabled us to be able to pivot quite quickly and to really actively explore ways to diversify our revenue. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

We work with some very smart, highly intelligent scientists and geologists, who come up with these great ways to build software for adjacent markets. These are markets such as offshore logistics, military and marine robotics. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

So fortunately, the company has been able to keep to this strategy. We’ve been able to somewhat mitigate some of the near term impacts to the bottom line and to the cash position. We basically have to actively work on diversifying the revenue streams and to remain a low cost company with a low cost basis. 

Craig Jeffery: 

That’s interesting. I didn’t know that there was a sector called marine robotics, but there’s obviously some overlap skills that can be a transferred. That’s great. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

It’s a very interesting environment. Obviously, I don’t understand the technical side, but there’s a lot of cool stuff that goes on under water. 

 Craig Jeffery: 

Since this is Stories from the Front, we’ve been through … We’re well past March, we’re almost into September. We talked a little bit earlier about the response, very early in the mix, on another podcast, but I’d love to get an update on what you’ve done early on. And then what’s perhaps changed over time, as you’ve adapted to this ongoing challenge facing your industry and your company. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Yeah. Early on, as we had discussed, the immediate focus was obviously on liquidity and cash preservation. So immediately, like a lot of our competitors, we drew down on our evolver and we began working on a lot of different sensitivity and scenario modeling to ensure that we didn’t bust any covenants by borrowing additional funds. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

We had, definitely a much greater focus on forecasting, and this was more frequent turns of the cash forecast with longer horizons. Now, that hasn’t really changed since March. I think that’s going to be something that’s always important in this industry, until there’s a real recovery. But right now, it’s a continuation of cost control, cash preservation, and just making sure our forecasts are accurate and we’re able to predict scenarios that will come back at us because there’s a lot of information out there. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

There’s a lot of positive people, and then there’s a lot of negative people. So, you’re never really sure where the industry is going, how things are going to turn out. We’ve got to just be prepared for what potentially could come our way. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

We also, at the beginning, took advantage of the many global government relief programs that were available to the company. These were very helpful in terms of cash injection. I will say that they were sometimes very cumbersome processes, especially in the US, but we’re very grateful that the government has these relief programs for our industry. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

The global teams really stepped up and we got all this done quite quickly, in line with the liquidity focus and the needs of the company. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Moving forward, what we’ve been able to do is to just make sure that we continue the cost control process. Of course, the company is still very much focusing on the customer needs. We’re still focusing on innovation and improvements and to just really try to find those adjacent markets, where we can have diversified revenue streams and to just make sure the company still is able to ride out these difficult times. 

 Lee-Ann Perkins: 

We unfortunately still have the salary reductions. We still have the furloughs, but I think in this industry, we’ve been through it so many times. When things are bad, we know we all just got to huddle together. We got to get the work done as we always have, with fewer people. So, I think that just eventually drives innovation and efficiencies, not only on the operating side, but also in support functions like treasury and finance. You just got to look for those opportunities. It’s not always rosy, but it’s what you make of it, at the end of the day. 

Craig Jeffery: 

How coordinated is this? Obviously, treasury has a role, the C-suite has a role, other parts of the business have a role. Is this highly coordinated or are people operating on their own and then coming together? How is that working? 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

I think we’re a very lucky company because we have an incredibly collaborative workforce. That really stems down from our C-suite and also from our board. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Our CEO has weekly virtual coffee sessions with every lead from each department. Some of them are very technically orientated sessions and others are just general states of the economy and state of the company, and others are very finance focused. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

The whole company is invited to any one of those virtual coffee sessions to ask questions. The CEO and CFO are always available. So, I will say it is extremely collaborative. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

It’s not to say that everything always goes right all the time, but I think we have excellent leadership and support from not only our board, but from our C-suite as well. I think that drives down to the various functional and operational departments, to be able to work together and to help steer us through these turbulent times. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

The company’s been in existence for 51 years as a business. So, I think they’ve learnt over the years how to navigate these tough times and what works. And I think from my perspective and the people I work with, collaboration is always how we’ve gotten through some of these more difficult times. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

So, I think it’s very much a case of be open, ask the questions. It also helps I think, to reduce fear and concern from the employees, because there’s nothing better than hearing directly from the top. So the message is not lost or misunderstood along the way. 

Craig Jeffery: 

Yeah. Good communication. That’s some good examples there of how you’re working on that. Well, as you talked about what happened at the beginning and then through the later stages so far of how you’re adapting, what are you looking out for on the horizon, that there’s going to be recovery or something freeing up or additional actions are necessary? What are you watching for? 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

From the treasury side, we’re always watching the government programs. There’s a lot of collaboration between our banks and our advisers on what the government in the US and various other countries are doing to help our industry. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

So, we’re watching for relief basically, but we’re also watching those global financial indicators, such as the Fed’s Fund Rates. What does this mean for us as a company with our interest rate risk and our foreign exchange risk? 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

In order to get a really good overview and to have the information disseminated in ways that is useful for the company, we do actively engage with our bankers and other experts in those areas. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

I think it’s also really important for us, and especially on the operational and sales side, for us to look at our customers. So, engaging with them to know when their capex budgets are coming back and when we think we’ll be able to start programs again. I think that’s much more of an immediate indicator for us. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

And then also watching our competitors. What are they doing? What are they not doing? What are they running into that we should perhaps be aware of? So it’s very much a holistic look at, not only the industry, but also the government and finance side and how we can protect our company. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Specifically on the treasury side, we’re obviously very engaged in risk management. So, that’s actively monitoring credit risk, customer risk, counterparty risk and sovereign risk. We’re watching how these risks can impact the industry as a whole, and specifically us as a company. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

And then just a little bit more broadly, we’re also looking at some opportunities worldwide. One of the strategies of the treasury department is to future-proof the company, where we can as a department. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

In terms of pivoting quickly to other markets, we never know where we’re going to be working as a company. It could be in a country where we don’t have any bank accounts or any ability to transfer funds. So, one way to help to future-proof is to make sure we have relationships with our existing banks worldwide, to quickly be able to add bank accounts if we need them in a certain area. So we’re trying, I think, to pad as much as we can for what’s coming at us from the horizon. 

Craig Jeffery: 

Sure. Just shifting a little bit to the concept of learning, what have you learned through this process, I’ll ask a few questions together. It’s really one question, but this may get you answering in different ways. 

Craig Jeffery: 

As you’ve gone through this, what was the scariest thing that you’ve seen or that you guys experienced? What went well? And then I also want to make sure you circle back and I’ll ask you about that too, but was there something you wish you had in place or had done differently or more thoroughly that others who are listening could learn from? Maybe we start off with, what was the scariest and what went well? 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

I think the scariest thing for us was, at least from the finance department, was how do we close quarter end in a public company remotely? The first quarter end was about 20 days after we all were sent home to work at home. So, it was pretty nerve wracking too, to make sure that everybody was communicating correctly and the work was being done, and everybody knew what to do to get the quarter closed. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

We really shouldn’t have been afraid because it was just like working in the office. We got everything done. It was a very successful quarter close. So, I think once we all got over that, and we got feedback from the board and the auditors that everything went well, there were no problems and nothing to be concerned about, I think it gave us a lot more confidence to get through the next month end. We’ve just finished our second quarter filings as well. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

It was pretty scary to do all that and to also manage the cash and the liquidity at the beginning, but I think we just had the right processes in place to be able to get it done. And just once we got the fear out of our way, we just kept working and forging on as we always do. 

Craig Jeffery: 

Sure. Yeah. There’s a flow of funds and keeping employees safe and moving from home. You already described a little bit about the working at quarter close. But the extended business continuity plan test, if you will, there’s the human factor and you got to keep the business flowing side of things. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Right. Keeping the employees safe was obviously the number one requirement and concern of the company as a whole. We all got sent home on March 9th and about 95% of our workforce is still working from home. And there’s about 5% who are essential. They’re in the buildings around the world. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Fortunately, we have a very good QHSE department, who are very strict on the controls. They’re very up to date with what needs to be done. Nobody goes into the office without all the required PPE and following the protocol. So, I think we’ve been very lucky that employees have been safe, but it’s also attributable to the protocols that the companies put in place. That’s been important to us. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Also, I had previously spoken to you about our business continuity plan. Living in Houston, hurricanes are something that come at us pretty often. Looks like we’re getting two next week. So, obviously it’s 2020. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

We’ve had our business continuity plan in place. We’ve tested it during the hurricanes, but those have been … I think three weeks was the longest we’ve ever been out of the office, focusing on remote working. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Now with COVID, I think it’s going on almost six months already, that we’ve been out of the office. So, we were able to put it into place on day one, on March 9th, when we all left and it’s worked perfectly. It’s passed the test since we’ve been at home. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

I’m very grateful that those processes were in place and we were able to use them without skipping a beat. The processes still got done and the funds still float and fraud was prevented. So, I’m very grateful for that. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

I think last time I had mentioned to you that I have that little saying, that risk management is the process of sending solutions down the road to meet you when you need them most. I think COVID is definitely- 

Craig Jeffery: 

I love that one. Yeah. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Yeah, it’s one of the good ones. COVID has definitely proven the need for this approach. Fortunately, it’s something we had in place a while back and has worked out well for us. 

Craig Jeffery: 

Yeah, that’s great. I know when we spoke the other day, you had talked a little bit about your annual goal. I was wondering if you could talk about the goal because it was about working with the department to manage shocks. 

Craig Jeffery: 

I was just wondering if you could share some of that, because I think there’s a lot that can be learned from, at least that approach and some of the concepts that you laid out. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Sure. I hope that my goals are not jinxing this year. At the beginning of the year, obviously I didn’t know any of this was going to happen, but one of my goals for the treasury department was to work at building an antifragile treasury function. That is, in essence, to manage internal and external shocks that come our way. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

We don’t always know what these shocks are going to be, but history has told us they’re definitely coming at us. So, you might as well go and prepare for them. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

I have four pillars that support the quest to be an anti-fragile treasury function. I can just run through those quickly, if you like. The first one is pivot quickly and communicate simply. This year has been one that has proven the need for this process. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Our staff are always being asked to concentrate on different areas. Our strategies have changed. The board’s focus has led to different requests coming our way. So, in order for us to do this well and to meet the business objectives, the department has to be agile. We have to ensure that we can all get up to speed quickly to meet these deliverables. To do this, I think management must be clear in their requirements, and hence the communicate simply. Communicate to us, simply communicate to us often and ask for feedback. That’s one area. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

The other area is anticipate change and acknowledge uncertainty in a world of disruption. Boy, has this world, this year been very disruptive. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Risk management for treasurers is obviously very important. We have that focus on liquidity risk, on credit risk and on market risk. So anticipating change means that the treasury department strategy has to have a clearly defined decision making framework. So when a crisis, such as this year strikes, you have guidance for specific scenarios as you manage different types of risks that come up at you during the year. That’s proven helpful to me. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

The third one is trust the process. I mean, that’s an age old saying, that certain fundamentals do not change. If you stick to the game plan and you track to the baseline, you can always manage any variances from there. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

I think the fundamentals to me, are that a treasury department should always work to demonstrate good governance, good risk control and compliance. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Then the fourth one is lead by the causes of risk and not by the symptoms. So to me, it’s the understanding that risk doesn’t respect organizational structure. Therefore, your solutions that you put in place have to be global in nature. That’s absolutely rung true for this year, where everyone in the ION offices around the world have been somewhat affected by this pandemic. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

When I wrote these goals, I was focusing on areas such as financial risk and regulatory and technology risks. Obviously, I didn’t envision what’s come our way, but I do think and I’m proud of the way we handled these events, purely because we have robust processes and strategies that were already in place before the crisis and the teams all stepped up and had the skillsets to manage. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

I think, just to end that section off, is to say that the devil is in the detail, but the success is in the strategy. So, I’m proud that we put that in place and it seems to have worked for us so far. 

Craig Jeffery: 

It has good alliteration there, too. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Yeah. Yeah. 

Craig Jeffery: 

I liked that the way you phrased it. Instead of saying become resilient, you said it slightly different. You’re saying move to an antifragile environment or build an organization that’s antifragile, which is- 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Makes you think, right? 

Craig Jeffery: 

Yeah. It changes. Yeah. It changes the way you think about it. It’s like, “Hey, I don’t want to break. Not just that I want to bounce back, but I don’t want to break.” Both of those are helpful. In your second point in particular, anticipate change and what did you say, recognize we’re in an uncertain world or- 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Yeah, in world of disruption. Yeah. Acknowledge the uncertainty. Yeah. 

Craig Jeffery: 

Yeah. While you might send certain solutions down the road to meet you when you most need them, they may be specifically addressed to things or they may help provide a type of response, even if the situation is different. 

Craig Jeffery: 

I thought we were going to all be back at work after Easter. And then it’s like, not in 2020. Not everyone’s going to be staffed there, so certainly some issues there. 

Craig Jeffery: 

As we move to final thoughts, I know there’s more content that you may want to share, but what are some of the things that you’ve been thinking about that you want to just talk about or that may be particularly useful or helpful for others? 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

I know a lot of industries have faced the same issue, but it’s very dominant in the oil and gas sector because we’re so global in nature. One of the things that I really wish I had done earlier, or even thought of earlier for a goal for the year, is to work on international trade and collection of funds in an automated and digitized manner. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

We really struggled this year with trade finance. We use a lot of letters of credit for our exports, and during the most difficult time of the crisis, we were trying to get our outstanding AR paid from an international customer. We had this letter of credit out there, but because the banks were all closed and the company was closed, the FedEx with all the original paperwork sat at the bank somewhere for over two months. 

Craig Jeffery: 

I’m sorry I’m laughing. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Yeah. 

Craig Jeffery: 

Yeah. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

It’s funny now. Then it was tears. Unfortunately letters of credit are still so far behind. Everything has to be original. You have to have weight signatures. And of course, there’s this whole time and expiration issue to a letter of credit as well, but it really tripped us up. Of course, it was the largest amount of AR we were owed. So, it became a real problem for the company. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

We tried all sorts of things, like trying to factor the funds and all sorts of creative solutions, which didn’t work purely because of the country we’re working with. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

I know that there’s banks who have the digitized blockchain letter of credit, trade, finance program out there. We just don’t have that yet. So I know that you have to work with your banks and they have to offer it. But I really feel like if we had been able to work on that early, and I had thought about it as being just something way more important than it is, we could have prevented such a big issue for a good couple of months. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

I think there’s some things that you just don’t always think about being an issue, if you’re not in the office, but this one was quite severe for us. So, I think if I could do everything over again, I would have worked with banks to get us a digitized blockchain LC program in place. 

Craig Jeffery: 

I think the issue of the analog processes, there’s always greater risks than we expect because they tend to work fairly well in the normal environment. And then when things go bad, they go really bad. Yeah. So good story of adaptation there. 

Craig Jeffery: 

I know you have debt that’s LIBOR-based. You have other things that are happening. Any other thoughts to share? 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Even in these really tough times, we’re being asked to do a lot of different things. But we have to remember as employees and as team leaders, that there are other day-to-day operational needs that have to be adhered to, and especially in a public company. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Fraud never sleeps. SOX and internal controls have to be adhere to. There’s reporting, there’s monthly close, there’s letters of credit. So I think it’s important to always remember that you have to make sure your deadlines and your requirements are done, but you also have to make sure nothing slips. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

So, I think the way we manage this is to always start with the end in mind and keep pointing the team to the end goal. There’s a lot of little things that might trip you up along the way, but it’s the end goal that’s important. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

I think with us in the company and in the treasury team, this helps to provide direction. It helps stability during these tough times. Also, for me, I find that it helps to keep energy levels up because you know that there’s something achievable and attainable at the end of all this difficult work. It’s just finding ways to navigate those unforeseen challenges. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Like you mentioned, there’s a lot of other things that I have to focus on right now. It’s the LIBOR transition, both from the debt side and from the deposit side. This is a very long and involved project. It takes a lot of team members and a lot of different departments, but strategically it’s really important and it’s something I must fit into the schedule. So, I’ve learned that now more than ever, you have to have good time management skills. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

I think you have to speak up too, when you see difficulty approaching, either for yourself or your team members are facing it. You have to speak up. I’ve learned it’s not a sign of weakness. And one of your bosses jobs is to help remove obstacles, so that you can focus on your highest and best use of time. So speak up when you can and when you feel the need is there. 

Craig Jeffery: 

Lee-Ann, your plate is certainly full. I know you’re doing a lot. What else are you doing with your team to help make that effective or any other actions that we can learn from? 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

I think one of the ways is to not forget about training your staff. It just seems like in the past couple of years, in difficult times, that training seems to be that perk that gets taken away when you’re busy and everything else has to get done. There’s not enough time and money to do training. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

I see it from a different perspective. I think training is mutually beneficial for the company and for the employee. In these difficult times, when you have furloughs and cost-cutting, I think this is still a good way to prove to the employees that they’re valuable to you and it’s a small way to help to motivate them as well. It’s good for their career progression. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

There’s so many ways that you can train the staff for free. So, I think you have to be able to give the staff and yourself too time to listen to podcasts. I would definitely recommend the Strategic Treasurer’s series. For sure. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

You have to use your banks because they offer webinars and they offer advice. There’s so many ways that you can still get trained without having to spend a lot of money. It just takes a creative mindset. It takes really motivating and asking your staff if this is something that will help them. So, don’t leave out training. I think we’re all busy. We all have other things we should be doing, but I think training pays back dividends for years to come. 

Craig Jeffery: 

Yeah. Some great points, Lee-Ann. Thank you so much for sharing your stories from the front on this podcast. Thanks a lot. 

Lee-Ann Perkins: 

Sure. Wishing everyone well during these challenging times. I say, look for those opportunities in these difficult times. Treasury’s born for turbulence, so enjoy the ride. 

Craig Jeffery: 

You’ve reached the end of another episode of the Treasury Update podcast. Be sure to follow the Strategic Treasurer on LinkedIn.